On site at SAS Innovate: SAS Canada’s Ryan MacDonald on AI governance, the partner opportunity, and fifty years of trust

Robert Dutt: Hello, and welcome to In The Channel from ChannelBuzz.ca, bringing news and information to the Canadian IT channel for the last 16 years. I’m Robert Dutt, editor of ChannelBuzz.ca, and your host for the show.

This week, I’m coming to you from Grapevine, Texas, where I’ve been on the ground at SAS Innovate 2026. It’s a significant week for SAS Institute on a couple of fronts. The company is marking its 50th anniversary this year, and the announcement lineup has been one of the more substantive in recent memory, with major moves in AI governance, agentic AI across the Viya platform, and a meaningful shift in how the platform opens up to external AI agents and frameworks.

My guest today is Ryan Macdonald, country manager [CHECK: title recorded as “country manager” – should be “managing director” if you want to punch in] for SAS Canada. Ryan’s been with SAS Canada for about a decade, and has just stepped into a role leading the country this year. He has a front row seat to some significant strategic changes – the move to Viya, the expansion of the partner and channel program, and now what I think is a genuinely important moment as AI governance moves from theoretical concern to practical operational requirement, particularly in Canada’s regulated industries.

We cover a lot of ground – what this week’s announcements mean for Canadian organizations, where Canadian enterprise stands on AI maturity right now, the OSFI E-21 story, how SAS is thinking about its channel ecosystem and the mid-market opportunity, and a candid conversation about managed services and data sovereignty.

Let’s get right into it. My chat with Ryan Macdonald.

[MUSIC]

Robert Dutt: Ryan, thanks for taking the time, and what I’m sure is a busy week for you.

Ryan MacDonald: Yes, of course. Thanks for having me, Robert.

Robert Dutt: You guys turned 50 this year, and it feels like one of the bigger product lineup announcements at Innovate in a while. Curious what you felt from the room. What’s the energy, what’s the vibe that you’re getting from this year at Innovate, especially given that 50 years of SAS framing?

Ryan MacDonald: I agree with the energy you’re feeling. Certainly a ton of energy around our 50th and just what we’re seeing in terms of AI tooling and where we fit into that ecosystem. So lots of conversations about the data estate, how that’s evolving, and then just really looking for the reality check on where practical value lives in the new AI ecosystem that’s being framed around, especially for enterprise technology stacks.

Robert Dutt: Look at the announcement stack this week. You’ve got Navigator for AI governance. You’ve got the agentic AI expansion in Viya, the various industry solutions. Curious – and I’m sure you’ve seen some of these before they were announced to the public and been following their development – what is kind of activating your Spidey senses in terms of, “ooh, that’s going to play well at home right now.” What are we seeing as sort of the big early day opportunities out of those innovations?

Ryan MacDonald: Certainly in Canada, the regulatory domain around model risk management and model management and lineage and explainability is front of mind for everybody. I think that’s the major limiting factor in terms of proliferating cost of AI, in terms of actually calculating a per unit cost of running a model or introducing intelligence to something that was maybe traditionally rules-based. And so I think not only is there a regulatory driver, but people are seeing that as a practical constraint. So a lot in the governance and trust domain is certainly a hot topic.

Robert Dutt: And that kind of speaks to where I wanted to go next, actually, which is you guys have been in Canada across verticals for a long time, obviously. Curious how you would describe the overall kind of AI maturity of the Canadian market right now. Are we kind of leading, lagging? Or is there something distinctly Canadian to it?

Ryan MacDonald: Yeah, great question. This is close to home. We have the benefit of working with thought leaders in AI, folks like Ajay Agrawal. And just knowing the pedigree of intellectual property around this conversation in Canada, we have so much there. Of course, Geoffrey Hinton and Ilya Sutskever and the folks at U of T have just delivered so much to this community. I think that said, enterprise adoption and converting this into economic output is still something that we’re figuring out. So I think our investments generally, relative to peer groups around the world, we’re still a little behind. I think we’re doing some advanced things. There are some exceptions to this, where use cases are at the forefront of what’s being delivered globally. But generally, I think the data estate and this trust dynamic and the need for establishing a scalable framework for trust and governance – it’s a responsible thing to do. But relative to other geographies, it’s setting a foundation before we really run away with some use cases and deliver.

Robert Dutt: One thing we’re tracking – I’m sure a lot of people are – is the idea of AI initiatives that get a start and a lot of fanfare and then fizzle out before hitting production or certainly proving their worth. I’ve heard a lot of the framing of the idea of trust and governance as kind of the growth driver, rather than the compliance tax. How is that hitting in Canada? And is that any different than what you’ve seen in terms of reactions and feeling and overall motion in the states or elsewhere?

Ryan MacDonald: I think there are certainly differences in the tone of this conversation. For me, the purview is mostly north and south of the border – the US and Canada. But I think in Canada, we have a regulatory domain that is really prioritizing these things. So it’s not optional for a lot of – especially in a regulated market, this isn’t really a luxury you’d have to say, do I comply with this or not? But I think it’s also putting a per unit cost parameter on this for folks that is important. We’re seeing a huge proliferation of AI. Everything – your microwave, your lawnmower, everything has some sort of AI enablement component to it. Is it necessary? Are you getting the appropriate uplift? And these teams that are validating and pushing these models through the organization – what we’re hearing from them – this went from two a week, to a month, to two a day, five a day, ten a day. And so the systems – it’s not just a luxury or a question really of the ethics. Are we doing the right thing? Is this responsible? It’s a framework that’s required for the validation process, even just table stakes, to really scale through the organization.

Robert Dutt: To that point, in Canada we’ve got financial services, and particularly we’ve got OSFI E-21 coming up. That’s pretty scary – things attached to it if you’re not hitting the bar. Are you seeing that create urgency? Or are customers still in a wait and see kind of space around that?

Ryan MacDonald: I think the regulatory conversations there are interesting. There’s a lot of assessment of what peers are doing. And I think OSFI, to their credit, really listens to the community. Rather than setting a standard blind lead, just based on their intellectual property and what they see as being a requirement, they really listen to the community and measure from where everybody is, taking stock of that. So I don’t believe there’s a lot of fear and panic. I think organizations – as we did a lot of work around E-21 [CHECK: transcript rendered as “E23” – confirm on playback] specifically in this space – they were really well prepared. They had some ideas on how to make this more efficient, really focus on the materiality of where the risk lives and develop a framework that’s consistent with the risk posture in other domains. And I think that’s really – nobody was suggesting, “hey, this isn’t a good idea. This is too much pressure. This is putting a cost burden on us.” That wasn’t really the dialogue.

Robert Dutt: Beyond financial services and other regulated industries especially, what are you seeing in terms of how customers are wrestling with AI governance right now?

Ryan MacDonald: I think the scale of maturity across industries just varies so greatly. You have some organizations that are really just getting started, and they’re acknowledging that. In some of the roundtables we’ve had the benefit of participating in, some folks are trying to find their first step in AI. What does this even mean? They’re trying to find the right resources that can guide them. They’re still building their technology estate. And then, conversely, you have folks that are, as we spoke about earlier, leading the world – the global community – in terms of things like automated decisioning frameworks and integrating what were previously siloed processes. We see this in risk and fraud domains merging together. So I think we’re seeing both ends of that spectrum in Canada, certainly.

Robert Dutt: Analytics has become a crowded space lately – with Databricks, with Snowflake, with Microsoft Fabric getting in there, all in territory that you guys have been in for a long time. How do you make the case to Canadian organizations that have been told, especially by Microsoft, “hey, you can just have analytics as part of what you already have?” What’s the competitive message there?

Ryan MacDonald: Yeah, that’s a regular conversation for us, of course. I think what we really offer institutions, especially given the scale of the organizations we support – and we work in almost every major industry, every major enterprise in Canada – we offer a very different risk posture in moving through this process. So they may have what were traditional analytics with SAS. Maybe we had dabbled in what was previously BI, something like that. But for a lot of institutions, we support business-critical payload. There is a core application to their business that’s being delivered with a component of SAS. And oftentimes, as our relationships diversify across the organization, maybe we have a specific technology sponsor that helped build this alongside their business counterpart. Maybe they’ve moved on. And that decisioning layer is sort of obfuscated. So we spend a lot of time identifying – hey, is this what looks like ETL work potentially, in a report or an assessment that’s performed? Is this really a decisioning layer in your organization? And that’s what we’re really finding is there. And what folks are really interested in is taking that framework – what was previously identified as legacy SAS – and seeing what we offer in terms of Viya. It’s scaling far beyond what the competition can offer in terms of decisioning frameworks and automating process and delivering core value. A lot of the AI discussion is focused now on where are you seeing ROI? How long do we have to wait? What is the roadmap to finally get something out of this? And I think that’s really the core difference. Yes, there’s a lot of tools. It’s a crowded space. The competition is fierce and they can do some very exciting things. I think what we offer organizations is really the opportunity to do those same things and more, and to take your current investments, your current intellectual property, through that framework – which delivers value incrementally rather than a build within a complete new paradigm.

Robert Dutt: One of the announcements that really caught my eye this week was the addition of the MCP – in that essentially you guys are opening up the analytics engine to external AI agents like Claude to call it directly. It seems like a pretty significant shift in terms of thinking about openness, thinking about consuming SAS from wherever folks want to consume it. What does that motion mean for the Canadian organization and for your Canadian customers?

Ryan MacDonald: I think this is an extrapolation of what we spoke about earlier, in the sense of we are providing these deterministic decision frameworks to these organizations today. And so we talk about this almost in the sense of the Apple/Android paradigm. This was a previously closed ecosystem. The SAS code base was proprietary. The compute infrastructure was proprietary. And the open source motion was the first move here – running Python and R and other code frameworks natively within SAS is something that we’ve supported now for years within Viya. And it’s an extrapolation of this – meeting our customers where they are. SAS did not endeavor to compete directly with the frontier labs and build LLM models. But we certainly see the benefit – this is providing the market the productivity increase, the creativity of use cases, and what this adds to decisioning frameworks. I think the shortcoming is still the deterministic component, where something can be built in a hard and trusted capacity, presented to a regulator with the appropriate lineage. That’s really where we see these worlds coming together. So I don’t think it’s a great strategic decision if SAS were to impose, “we have one specific framework, one partner in this space.” We’re seeing, in addition to the frontier labs, a lot of custom work in this space as well – enterprises that are building more small language models around their data sets. So imposing this integration framework, I think, allows us to really meet customers where they are.

Robert Dutt: A few years ago there was a flurry of things going on on the channel side for you guys. You brought on TD SYNNEX as a distributor. I believe it was a worldwide, not Canadian-specific figure that you were going for – 30% of contribution through partners. Where’s the channel scene at for you today? How would you characterize where you’re at against those goals and others?

Ryan MacDonald: I think we’re still making progress in that domain. The channel business is still growing very aggressively. It’s a big shift to turn, frankly, in terms of getting the allotment of customers we had when we segmented what work was going to the channel, how that was going to be developed. And we compare ourselves to our peers in the industry – they’ve been at this for a lot longer. So just the maturity continues to develop. I think we’re seeing great progress, great feedback from customers in terms of the way that the channel is able to support them. And we see proliferation of niche players here that have come out of the woodwork that are very industry-specific. So I think that’s really the opportunity – where we had a general technology-based approach for certain industry segments, what we’re seeing is these channel partners can really tie together these business outcome-driven discussions in a way that was much more expensive and difficult for SAS to scale to.

Robert Dutt: What does the community look like today in terms of scale, profile of partners, what they’re doing, and where do you see that evolving over the near future?

Ryan MacDonald: I think we’re seeing this change very quickly with the advent of AI in terms of what use cases are being prioritized. I think in Canada, a lot of organizations have hit a wall in terms of understanding their data foundations – they’re not necessarily ready to scale them towards all the outcomes they’re seeking to deliver. And so channel partners are that domain. What are our peers doing? And this is GSIs and niche consulting firms and everybody in between. So we’re really seeing those conversations take shape of almost a reset of the roadmap, a reprioritization of how they’re building out their target state ecosystem. And that industry expertise is, I believe, the real differentiator. There’s a lot of competition. It’s a crowded space in that sense. So having an outcomes-focused point of view, whether that’s from SAS directly or a channel partner, is really important.

Robert Dutt: Is the changing nature of what you guys are focused on in terms of AI governance and all those kinds of things that we’ve been talking about changing the definition of who you’re working with as a partner? Or is that something that’s likely to happen in the near future?

Ryan MacDonald: I don’t think it’ll necessarily change. We might add some things to it, but they’re really part of the same conversation. I don’t think you can have a conversation about scaling AI without a discussion about the governance framework. And in a lot of cases, model inventory work, and just being the core platform of delivering models in this decisioning layer, is something that SAS had a lot of experience and an existing footprint within. So I think it’s really germane to the way we’ve been working with these customers today.

Robert Dutt: How does the service mix – how they actually bring this all to market as partners – change as kind of what you’re going after changes?

Ryan MacDonald: I think there’s a lot more consultative work right now around these outcome-focused and prioritization discussions. So I think it certainly is changing. And if you’re seeing this sort of increased competition in the technology domain and more commoditization of certain tool sets, it just puts more weight on – how do I really navigate? It crowds the pathway and creates more obstacles in terms of delivering outcomes. And so I think just refocusing on outcome-oriented discussion – and a lot of times these are deep partnerships between a niche consulting vendor, or somebody that now is a channel partner to SAS, and these firms in sectors across Canada. So it’s not necessarily changing the way we’re working with them. It’s changing the prioritization of the discussion, putting consulting maybe ahead of technology.

Robert Dutt: Before we sat down to record, just as we were getting to know each other, you mentioned that part of your path through SAS Canada was you had managed services, at least for a while – and I believe that to be internally. How has that shaped, and how does this moment shape, how you think about working with partners who are in that managed services kind of motion?

Ryan MacDonald: Yeah, that conversation is changing everywhere in the world. The political landscape, of course, is relevant here – in terms of we’re seeing some location dictate where customers are willing to send or host data. We’re seeing geo-repatriation in that sense. We’re seeing movement to the cloud change the dynamics of the cost model, what folks are seeing in terms of stable applications that don’t necessarily need the scalability or proximity to data. We’re seeing them pull some things back on premises and build clouds internally with OpenShift and other technologies. So I think it’s a cycle like most things in technology, where we’ve had the gold rush of moving everything to the cloud. And I think especially enterprise customers are now deciding not only how do they divide that workload amongst hyperscaler partners, but what is appropriate for internal clouds, which are now growing in popularity. And I think in Canada, we’re not seeing a huge disruption in this space, but we’re seeing a lot more of our business grow in terms of managed services. And as we talk about more outcome-driven engagements – less just providing raw access to the technology – the managed service really bridges the gap in terms of the various integration points that need to be managed along the way. And so it’s not just simply providing the infrastructure and application support. We’re seeing the managed service domain, especially around SAS – where this is not a one-size-fits-all approach – really extrapolate into “can we help you really derive your outcome” with expertise in either transformations of data, or we’re providing models now in terms of a service offering, in addition to consulting work of building models custom to each application. So that’s really evolving quickly.

Robert Dutt: One of the trends that we follow a lot is this move across the industry to look at partners less as a direct, straight-through channel and more as an ecosystem – a lot more multi-partner engagements, especially given where you guys sit in the complexity and custom nature of a lot of what customers are asking of you. How are you guys thinking about that ecosystem, multi-partner play?

Ryan MacDonald: I think the list of partners is generally growing as we talk about extrapolating into channel and SAS’s ambition to have, as you stated, 30% of our revenue flowing through the channel in Canada. I think the customer really dictates the specific mix. And so customers in large enterprise have a preference of GSI and specific domains. And what we’re seeing more is the introduction of niche players alongside GSIs, where typically that was binary previously. They would typically – let’s say they work with Deloitte or EY, for example – that would be their preference to continue in that direction. And now we’re seeing them want to leverage the scale those organizations offer, but really like the thought leadership and expertise delivered by a niche partner, and want to bring us all together. So we’re seeing a lot more partners enter the conversation, which I think is very healthy for the competitive domain and just in terms of getting to specific outcomes very quickly.

Robert Dutt: The traditional sweet spot for SAS has been clearly enterprise, and Canada’s a very SMB-heavy nation, obviously. But a lot of the stuff that’s going on right now between the Viya SaaS model and the stuff going up on GitHub and the move towards managed services suggests that there might be even more of a mid-market play than before. I’m curious what you see in terms of what a Canadian reseller can realistically and credibly pursue right now.

Ryan MacDonald: That has been the way the economy has been structured in Canada for decades, of course, and something that I think our channel strategy really celebrates and prioritizes. SAS – it’s hard to work both ends of the spectrum. And so our legacy of working with enterprise customers, to explore some of the topics we’ve covered in the regulatory domain and how that takes shape, the reach to SMB customers has been something that we’ve candidly struggled with at times. The channel is really the resolution to that. So we’re seeing, as we talk about more entities in this space, the mix of consulting partners or partners in general proliferating – that’s really where we’re seeing it, down more towards the SMB segments, less on the enterprise side.

Robert Dutt: Acknowledging that there’s going to be a wide range of things here, and it may even depend partner to partner, but looking at the channel as an aggregate – what do you need more of from your partners right now in terms of areas of focus, in terms of opportunities to be going at, in terms of skillsets?

Ryan MacDonald: I think because we are trying to aggressively pursue this market in Canada and service this customer base – which, again, the channel is just better suited for, all around – to me, it’s the feedback loop. That’s something that we challenge, of course, our frontline in an enterprise setting. You have a consistent flow of communication that’s bidirectional. We’re getting feedback on what’s important to them, what they are doing with the platform at times in our tool sets. And having that flow through an additional intermediary is an additional step in the process in the channel segment. But I think that’s really important – just to make sure we’re collecting feedback not just from channel partners, but direct from customers – their experience with SAS, how our channel partners feel in terms of support and enablement, pricing and mechanics and the rest of it as well.

Robert Dutt: Curious what you see success at SAS Canada looking like over the next 12 to 18 months. What are the conversations you want to be having that you aren’t yet? What are the measurements that you’re looking at?

Ryan MacDonald: We have been growing the business – in terms of revenue, of course, is always important to us – but influence in the market, I think, is something else. SAS, having such a – as we celebrate 50 years – our legacy is something we’re incredibly proud of. It’s afforded us the opportunity to build these great partnerships in Canada, all across the country, various enterprises. I think at times the double-edged sword there is they may equate us to the way they had built with SAS previously and don’t necessarily take stock of some of the things you’re seeing us bring to market today and announcing here at Innovate. So I think that is really what we look for – not just in terms of revenue growth and are we delivering more outcomes and scaling the progress with these customers. Are we really – are they delivering within the new framework? Are we changing the narrative in terms of what they see from SAS and who we are to them?

Robert Dutt: My last and definitely most important question – how many dinners did you have last night?

Ryan MacDonald: I had one dinner.

Robert Dutt: One? One dinner. Oh, that’s an accomplishment. I appreciate you taking the time, Ryan. Thanks.

Ryan MacDonald: Thank you, Robert. Really, really nice to meet you here today. Thank you, I appreciate your time.

Robert Dutt: There you have it – Ryan Macdonald from SAS Canada.

I’d like to thank Ryan for his time. This was our first in-person recording with the new setup, and I think you can hear the difference.

And thank you for listening. A few things I’m taking away from this one.

First – the AI governance story in Canada is moving faster than it might look from the outside. Ryan’s framing stuck with me: the volume of models organizations are pushing through validation has gone from two a week to five to ten a day. The governance framework isn’t a compliance tax – it’s the operational infrastructure that makes any of this scalable. And for Canadian financial services firms, OSFI E-21 isn’t on the horizon anymore – it’s here.

Second – SAS’s competitive argument is more interesting than the standard “we’ve been around longer” play. The pitch is that there’s already a business-critical decisioning layer in your organization that’s been built on SAS. And the real question is whether you’re going to upgrade and grow from that investment, or build something new from scratch alongside it. For a lot of Canadian enterprises, that’s a conversation worth having.

And third – Ryan was candid that the direct sales model doesn’t reach the SMB, and the channel is the answer. What’s interesting is where the growth is coming from – niche, industry-specific partners alongside the big GSIs, with customers already wanting both in the room. If you’re a Canadian reseller or systems integrator with deep vertical expertise, SAS is worth a conversation.

We’ll be back tomorrow with more from on the ground here at SAS Innovate 2026, as we chat with the global channel chief at SAS Institute, John Carey [CHECK: transcript rendered as “John Kerry” – confirm on playback before publishing].

If you found this one useful, follow or subscribe to In The Channel from ChannelBuzz.ca. We’re on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and most of the major directories. Ratings and reviews are always appreciated and genuinely help other people in the channel find the show.

Until next time, I’m Robert Dutt for ChannelBuzz.ca, and I’ll see you in the channel.